ZX 12 Engine rule question
Our local club is running under the Stars rules for 2012.
According to the engine rules for Stars, it states that a Zx 12 must remain stock bore, stroke, rod length, and be stock appearing.
I am checking to see if any club that is under the 2012 Stars rules will allow a Zx 12 run after market rods, such as carrillo rods and lighten cranks.
Bill Bauer was consulted about this question by our tech officials and he stated that a Zx12 must run stock rods and no lighten cranks.
A recent discussion from Zx 12 owners stating carrillo rods are "stock appearing" and the Stars rules do not state anything about lighten cranks for the ZX 12's like they discuss about the spec 1000 motors are not allowed to have lighten cranks.
Any input would be appreciated.
It has been a concerted effort for the past few years to get rid of 1200 cc motors-I gave up on my zx 12 winter before last and sold it to a guy in CA who runs a dirt midget. The interesting point is I now run a GSXR that has much MORE power then the ZX 12 and it is legal-go figure. Basically TUSA and STARS are saying you cannot change ANY internal parts. Hope that helps.
As far as the rules read for 2012 it appears to be a gray area, it does not say specifically "must use stock rods" just that they remain stock length. Doesn't matter what Bill says, in my own opinion, he could say whatever he wanted but clubs will have to follow what is down on paper. If it is becoming a problem than STARS will have to look into it for following seasons.
the wonderful "gray area".. if this is the case, explain this to me. the rules state that an aftermarket airbox may be used on stock or spec motors and does specify anything about velocity stacks. Mr bauers states that velocity stacks may not be used..... gray area--- rite? but the board decides to enforce this rule even though it was not specified in the rules.... explain this .
Originally Posted by H&E91
Just for kicks.. I would love to have you show me a stock set of rods and carrillo side by side and to have you explain to me how they appear to be stock
and a lighten crank vs. a stock crank
Actually, that is not correct. Half the guys in STARS run velocity stacks. And the day he rules them illegal, I am out of STARS. As far as the rods go, run em if you want. Same with a light crank. I am not here to argue with you. I was just sharing with you the intention of TUSA & STARS, to phase out the 1200cc power plants. BUT after these posts, don't be too surprised when someone wants a look see at your bottem end. lol. Good luck with your ZX-12, wish I still had mine.
Last edited by wildbvill244; 03-25-2012 at 11:21 PM.
ok i have heard both sides of the story and i know alittle more on what really is going on then most of the people on here. Mine and Joels club had a board meeting back a couple months ago to vote on the rules. the options we had were 1. Stay our rules and make a little bit of changes. 2. Go completely TUSA rules. 3. Go stars rules. as a club we voted. 3 people voted to stay our own rules. 27 of us voted stars rules. and 0 voted for tusa. then the president said do we want to addapt/change any of the stars rules for our club. we said NO we voted completely stars rules as is so that way if we have any questions we can call Bill Bauer and he can deside what his rules are so we wont have any favortisim on who desides.
Sence that meeting the tech offical has done alot of searching on how to tech the engines by Stars rules. He has also made several phone calls to Bill about his rules on the so called "Gray area's" to find out what Bill will alow and what he wont. The tech guy has told the board of our club and every club member that has called him with question on what the answer of the gary area's are.
Bill said the stock and spec engines CAN NOT run velocity stacks by his rules. he also said for the ZX12 the have to be STOCK. and he went in to what he said stock was. the can not run aftermarket rods of any kind they have to be the STOCK ROD FROM THE FACTORY, also the can not lighten the crank shaft at all. all the gears have to be there, ect....
Now as soon as the tech guy told the board of this there was an uproar. The problem to them is the aftermarket rod is stronger. which i understand and agree with them. but the reason bill said they have to be stock is because it is hard to tech the lenght of a rod to see if it is a stock spec rod or if it is a long rod engine. Now I would have no problem if they wanted to prove to the tech guy that it was a stock spec rod by tearing down the engine and messuring it in front of the tech guy. but that is alot of work to go through. That is why Bill said STOCK RODS.
Now sence all the fighting over this the board (not all the board members but more then half of them) wants to let the zx12 engines slide on there rules But still tech the Stock and Spec. engines and make them stick to there rules.
Now on the board we have the president who his son who runs a zx12. his son is also on the board. then another board member runs a zx12. now im not saying there engines are bad or anything but i am saying that there is some bias on the board. The board wants to give the zx12's one more year to run what they have so they can clarify the gray area's. even tho the have been clarified. now the truth is out there.
Now i see only a couple ways of salving this.
1. let them all run without tech every engine AND let TROY HUDSON bring his big engine back that they outlawed.
2. have a Club meeting and deside as a club what to do about this.
3. Get some new board members that are not involved with there own program to run the club.
This is just my input im sick of everyone complaining in our club over this. Now lets all grow up and go have some fun and RACE!!!!
#99 Josh May
** * *I currently run a zx12 in madcra who now run under the stars program. *I would like to start by saying that I along with a few others were currently VOTED (by the club) onto the madcra board. *I intend to serve my three years as a board member. *This rule about stock rod LENGTH is a grey area only because of the other rule saying it must be stock appearing. *But I have spoken to a few members from around here on this issue and have heard the same feedback... this has been this way for seven years now? Written the EXACT same way, people have ran these rods under the same rule for the past seven years. *
Bill told our president it is up to our club on how we want to deal with this grey area. *(keeping in mind that there are 7-10 zx12s in our club. *Three weeks before race season it is unfair to those running corrilla rods to all of a sudden change the way the rule is interpreted to say rods must remain stock. *I have a twelve with stock rods in it so do not think I am saying this about myself. *But three weeks before race season and they have to send their motor off to put stock rods back in it? *Hmm..
Lets also not forget*
1. We race for a whopping $150 a night.
2. The club voted on its board members.
3.the president has to deal with this crap every single day.
4.the club voted the president in.
I do this all for fun and intend to keep on having fun no matter what motor I have to run. *I believe this is the attitude that most dwarf car racers in this area have and that's what make it even more fun. *But some people may take things to serious and you need to think to yourself $150? **
I am also not trying to stir things up anymore because things are stirred up enough as it is. *I just wanted to further help clean up some issues some members of this local club may have.
please help clean up this issue
back to the "grey area"
we were told at the same time about the velocity stacks yet they will not be allowed.....
we dont have enough time to buy new airboxes.
please explain this decision
Last edited by x50car; 03-26-2012 at 10:18 PM.
Let's just spread our dirty laundry around the whole country, they will really want to come race with us or is that really will hate to see you show up at one of their races! Also let's be clear that the "tech guy" is Josh May's dad and is also a member of the board. I think (may be wrong) that he voluntered for both jobs! Don't you think that our number one racer would have nothing to worry about!!!! Look at a dyno sheet for a zx`12 and compare it to those 1070's, why do you think tusa and stars both upped the 1070 weight to 1350 which the 12's have run for years. Again maybe you guys should be looking at the future and the engines that will be coming into play instead of worring about the old stuff. Even the oil gxxrs ran out sooner or later. sorry just couldn't be quiet, we all just wanted to race and be compeitive, this has been a fn class.
well joel i guess if its a grey area then you should be able to run velocity stacks sence there are allowing the zx12 to run there rods and thats a grey area.
i would just like to add i havnt look at any zx12 engine but i have a feeling that if there are around 10 cars running them that not all 10 of them have aftermarket rods. the reason you guys have ran them is because our tech officals in the past didnt know how to tech the engine. now we find out how and the board chases off the new tech offical. And just like gixxerfixxer said THE RULES HAVNT CHANGED FOR 7 YEARS. Walt under tusa said that they were not alowed under his rules either. and MADCRA had TUSA engine rules for the past several years. so i guess you guys have had more then a couple weeks to change out your rods. its been YEARS. so either change your rods or change the rules to fit your program. just get something done and in black and white so we have something to go by. I know when we adopted the star rules for this year some of the guys that had spec engines had to change there rods and have already spent the money in doing so so they will be able to race so whats the big deal?
Someone correct me if I am wrong......I have been watching this post and tonight I have read over Stars rules about 5 times. In that reading I have not read one time that a ZX12 couln't run carillo rods. It states it has to be stock length states nothing else. Also I never read one place it said no Velocity Stacks on Spec motors. If Bill is telling people different rules than he has in Black in White this is his topic to step in and take control of. If he wants to say you can't run Carillo rods or velocity stacks he needs to say that in Black and White in his rules package. I am sure there are people all over the country that are 2 weeks away from race season reading this saying shit I have velocity stacks now they are illegal? This all comes down to STARS they need to get this solved because I am sure there are alot of questions around the country on what the rule really is. It is very simple to avoid "grey areas" put it on paper they have 3 pages giving body and chassis measurements but 3 paragraphs giving rules for MOTORS which creates the most controversy in the sport... You guys chose to take Stars rules package with no altering for your group so I would say its simple the ZX12 can run carillo rods and the velocity stacks can run on Spec motor and as far as I can see thats how it should be across the country until otherwise stated by Stars. Just an outsider looking in..
Most engine builders have always explained to me that carillo rods are used for their strength (like insurance) not performance. If you are worried about somehow using them to run a long rod, then we need input from more engine builders how that can be done with rods and not a spacers plate? How much do you think we spend on these things! Get real.
Since this is not answering my one and only question that was initially asked, which was "I am checking to see if any club that is under the 2012 Stars rules will allow a Zx 12 run after market rods, such as carrillo rods and lighten cranks.
H&E91 if you are someone local, look me up or call me @515.710.1593 and we can talk about this.
Flatout if you are running stacks on a stock/spec motor you need to call stars and here it for yourself. This is wat we were told.
Otherwise, end this thread
I wouldnt change anything on that engine cuz I run the same one and u run with me and i know people are going to mess writh us for having the 1200