New Thread- Shocks Discussion- what do people think??-
I am posting this because I am looking for some positive feedback on what people think about the shock dilemma that we are facing in Mod- Lite racing.
On previous posts we see that Bilstein shocks that were adjustable to a point have been used in competition at East Bay. While my knowledge on this is limited, my understanding is these shocks had to be removed from the car, and the spring /coilover removed so that a special tool (similar to the needle used to inflate a basketball) can be inserted in the bottom of the shock barrel to change the pressure. Some key points:
1. The valving is not changed- so an easy up stays easy up, a tie down stays tie down.
2. The changes can not be made on the car
3. The changes cost @$35 per shock- does someone know the actual costs?
My understanding is that none of the cars with these shocks have made it to tech in a competition event, and if you were not knowledgeable (and removed shocks) , you would not know to tech anyways.
Most of the governing bodies in Mod Lite racing state in the rules that shocks "May not be of a type that allows dis assembly".
See above, at the same races- Bilstein was there to re-valve shocks and I have heard teams were running shocks with custom valving.-In addition, in 2011, (last year Winternationals), I parked next to a trailer at East bay that had a full shock shop and dyno. This team was able to custom valve shocks - progressive vs. Linear, and may any shock adjustment they wanted to- for @ $6000 we could all have that.
I see that Stars has already made a rules statement (thank you!!) and I assume TUSA and other clubs will follow. I appreciate the thought that is already going into this and the work our sanctioning bodies are doing to keep costs down.
As racers, what do we want? Should we compete against teams with the ability to make custom shocks? Should we compete against teams that can change shock pressures?
How about some positive dialogue on what the best way to move forward.....
Also, none of the above is meant to disparage, or speak negatively about any team or organization. Bilstein is a great sponsor of Mod Lite racing and they make a great product.
I know it's lengthy, thanks for taking a minute to read and respond!!
We have raced Modlites for 4 years, and we found that shocks are the key. Yes we had money in shocks we ran the BSB shocks, we liked them better and they held up better. The rules last year at Eastbay was a claim rule on shocks, I think it was a TUSA rule not sure. The problem is 90% of the rules are covered in the gray area.
If the claim rule is still in the rules then the guys that are upset at Eastbay should have claimed the shocks.
Racerdad22, nice post, claim rule is my 2 cents.
It don't take long to break an expensive shock in one of our wrecks. I don't believe anyone should get to custom valve AT the track. You should not be able to adjust any shock at the track bc that is against the rules. Custom valvings on shocks are something I have tried and tried. Truth is going back to regular valvings offered by Bilstein and running a basic package seems to work best. You can actually get fairly close to the custom valvings they are doing by using the r/c valvings offered by Bilstein:
LF 3030 RF 4020
LR 1050 or 2040 RR 3010
This does a lot of the same thing of pinning the RF to the track and holding the LF down while laying the traction down on the RR from midturn out. The secret to this set up I have found is a more even LR/RR weights with no more than 25# LR. You can feel the RR loading at midturn and can lay the HP down. But too much CW % makes it way too tight. On a dry track it works.
But this is a cheap way to get close to those custom valvings.
Coil-over shocks are the only allowable means of
supporting the chassis. One shock and one spring per
wheel only. Shock and spring must remain as one
unit.Shocks must be of all-steel construction, nonadjustable
type. May not be of a type that allows
dis-assembly.............this is our shock rule at Tyler county speedway.......we also have the claim rule..
I am sure they make a difference, but sure can add up in cost when they get broke. Truth is, for $25 you can have any Bilstein Shock revalved at daymotorsports and for about $400 and 7 used Bilstein shocks, you can have a package made up by another shock builder I will not name, that will have dyno sheets and specs as to where to put each shock under certain conditions. I have used the first of these sources to make up a custom setup for my car, but to be honest, a basic package combo you can get in Bilsteins that are normally offered valvings work better. I have discussed shocks with Bryan Henry and I asked him about the premise of the RF pindown and LR easy up setup....which in my experimentation just does not seem to work as well on our 3 links....and he has always maintained that the package he uses is just Basic Bilsteins valvings. If he is telling the truth, and he wins a lot of races, maybe all this shock hocus pocus is just a lot of money wasted.
Well,, I run the BSBs' and have run Bilsteins for years and in talking to people in the know you can get whatever you want from the factory or any number of racing shops that offer shock rebuilding.. Anyways, back to the question at hand. Should we compete against teams with the ability to MAKE custom shocks and change shock pressures?
As long as they're not able to adjust them while they are on the track I don't see a problem with it.. They can have all that at their finger tips.. If they can't adjust them while they are racing then what good is it.. I can buy it from the factory if I want to..
In any form of racing you're going to have people with more money than they have sense and they will spend it whatever they feel will work for them and in knowing this I will gladly race with them as long as they can't adjust them from the cockpit during the race..
I'm with The Mechanic, but would go one step beyond: let adjustables in as long as they can't be accessed during car operation. I feel when you get too tight on rules, it just makes more cheaters. If someone works hard enough to find the adjustments which work, the reward should be in the finish.
I agree with Mechanic44 I have run the specially valved shocks and hated them, I have much better luck with the off the shelf Bilsteins. I can make pretty much any change to the car I want by changing the shock on the corner I want to change....but to be honest I dont really ever have that need now that my car is pretty much developed. Its my opinion that to shut the whining poor sports up you should implement a $400.00 shock claim for all 4 and be done with it. This allows the person that gets his shocks claimed to buy a new set.......if said person then wants to take a chance and throw custom valving into them, that is the chance they take.
When I put them in it changed my car drastically....and not in a good way. Im sure if I wanted to take the time I could have fiddled with the combination to get it to work. Pretty much any combination can be made to work but you still have to have a driver that can work out all the changes necessary to do that. The thing that kills me in this sport is no matter what you do with the rules the same guys still win and there is always a group of poor sports that cry foul.